The Spiritual Artist Podcast

Writer/Speaker Tracy Brown Breaks Through Limiting Beliefs to Reveal New Creativity

June 09, 2020 Christopher J. Miller
The Spiritual Artist Podcast
Writer/Speaker Tracy Brown Breaks Through Limiting Beliefs to Reveal New Creativity
Show Notes Transcript

Host Christopher Miller interviews writer, speaker, and spiritual coach Tracy Brown on breaking through limiting beliefs and writer’s block during the creative process. When we step “into” the creative process, we can choose a different behavioral response to develop new beliefs that are grounded in feeling. Tracy reviews 12-step programs and their focus on changing behavior to create new thoughts, feelings and beliefs.  Discussion includes building a framework for creativity while learning to listen for inspired guidance in the process. Tracy Brown is the author of “Stained Glass Spirit: Becoming a Spiritual Community Where Oneness Does Not Require Sameness” and, “I Turn to Prayer” a collection of prayers written in a variety of formats. Many people know her as the moderator of the public Facebook group: What is Mine to Do, where group members focus on personal responsibility to break the cycle of race-based hatred and violence. For more information, visit https://reclaimjoy.com or https://stainedglassspirit.net

Speaker 1:

Welcome to the spiritual artists podcast. This is Chris Miller. I invite you to join me. As I interview artists from a variety of disciplines, we'll share powerful stories and lessons learned while making their art. Welcome to the spiritual artists podcast with Chris Miller today, I'm in conversation with Tracy Brown. Tracy works with both corporate clients and churches nationwide on inclusion strategy and leadership development. Many people know her as the moderator of the public Facebook group. What is mine to do? Where group members focus on personal responsibility to break the cycle of race based hatred and violence? Tracy Brown is the author of several books. Her latest book is stained glass spirit becoming a spiritual community where oneness does not require sameness. And her book. I turn to prayer is a collection of prayers written in a variety of formats. I wanted to talk to Tracy today about her process as a writer. How does she proceed to engage conscious connection? Where do the ideas come from? How does she stop limiting beliefs from holding her back? Good morning, Tracy.

Speaker 2:

Hey Chris, it's so good to visit you.

Speaker 1:

Well, it is great to have you on my podcast. Um, I have to admit, I I've only seen you from a distance, uh, speaking and, and never had that one on close relationship with you until I recently scheduled, uh, a spiritual coaching session with you. And it was a great experience. And I've since discovered that you are quite the Renaissance woman.

Speaker 2:

Okay.

Speaker 1:

Yes. And it looks like you have a skill sets all over the place. Um, as you know, the spiritual artists podcast, we focus on the creative act and how it connects you, how spirituality can help enhance that experience of creativity.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. You know, it's so interesting that, um, the writing and the speaking really support each other because in both cases you are tapping or I am tapping into both, you know, imagination, but it's focused on what outcome I want. So, you know, what's the point I'm trying to make in the writing or who's the audience I'm trying to serve in the writing. And the same thing happens in speaking, like who's the audience and what's the key point. And also happens in coaching as a spiritual coach. It's like, I know a lot of stuff, but how does it serve and how can I most creatively serving the need that's right in front of me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. That's very interesting. Um, I started on this journey myself cause I'm a painter. And I started realizing that when I sit and go into my studio, there is a process of, of connection. And, and in that process, I can tell when I'm in it and when I'm out and I can tell, I feel like I'm almost being divinely guided when, when I'm in it. We were talking the other day when we were setting up this call, um, we were talking a bit about writer's block. And you said that you, you know, we all, we all experienced that that's a creative block. Um, and, and so I wanted to ask you, how do, how do you break through that when you find yourself with a task at hand and, and there's some block there,

Speaker 2:

or when you find yourself a full week behind the promise deadline, that impacts a whole chain of people and a whole chain of events. Yeah. You mean then when nothing you do will nothing, you, you sit down to do results in a written product that you are proud of, or even worse. You sit down and you realize three hours later that, you know, I've been playing FreeCell for about an hour and a half here. I found I was supposed to be writing. You know, there's so many different ways to get out of it. If I can catch myself realizing I love flow, just isn't there. I'm not, you know, it doesn't feel like there's anything coming through me. That's, that's related to what I am trying to write or what I have committed to. Right. There are a couple of things that I do. Sometimes I can really feel it, recognize it quickly, and I will get up, get out of the chair and redirect my attention because if I'm trying too hard and trying to force it, then that for me usually doesn't work. But often what happens is I don't really realize that I, you know, I'll be writing and you know, I am writing, I am doing the writing, but day after day, it doesn't feel like I'm making progress. And so then what for me happens is I will notice it mainly because of myself talk. I won't notice it because I haven't been trying to write, I will notice it because my self-talk start sounding like, I don't even know why you're doing this. I don't even know who, you know, what makes you think that you can write this? Um, I don't know why you think you have something special that say you're, nobody's special. You know, there are a million other people who could write this or who could reach this audience, or why are you doing this? And then I'll start thinking of three or four writers who have already written something or who are writers. I admire. It's like, you know, you are no Deepak Chopra.

Speaker 1:

Yeah.

Speaker 2:

So when I start hearing the self-talk, I've trained myself to note recognize, Oh, that's some old crap coming up and you're just frustrated. And then I go back and get really centered on why I'm writing in the first place or preparing the talk. Cause it's kind of the same thing. You know, it's not just a chore that I've agreed to do. It's not that it's an obligation that's been placed upon me. It is the creativity of spirit that has gifted me with the ability to reach people through words. And these are the people whom I messages for it. And so it's both, it's one remembering that my life is really not my own. Right. This, this is a gift that is being shared through me to the world. Yeah. That's the, you know, and then basically I get out of my own way.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. You know, it's, it's interesting. It was a big lesson I learned is, you know, Ekar tole calls it, um, be the watcher, uh, be the watcher of your thoughts. And I would find myself the same thing I'd be painting in my mind would be like, Oh, your mother said you couldn't paint and nobody can make a living out of painting. And, and, and if you can step back and, and, and look at those things running through your head from, from a perspective, from, from a different perspective, you can often soften them or

Speaker 2:

rewrite them. And what if we did, what if we, I mean, I, as you said that if we could just step back and I thought, what if I thought about it as I could step in, like, I could step into my soul and recognize that my soul is inspired to do this. And I am simply the physical, like the vehicle, the package that my soul is using to express creatively.

Speaker 1:

Wow. I love that. I love that. It, it, you know, when you think you're right, I have, I always focus on, on, on the watching from without, but then there is a point in process where you step in, you, you go into your consciousness, you go into your connection and, and there's a little bit of surrender. I find for me, there's a little bit of surrender where I just let it happen, surrender to it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Because it's the ego that is doing the, it must look like this, or it must meet this standard, or it needs to be better than this person's or this person has done something before. And that whole competition and false standard is coming, not from the soul. It is coming from the, from society. So what, what do I want to guide me dry, want society to guide me in the creative expression of life? Or do I want my soul to be in the lead navigating me? And I think for most artists, even though we're all artists, right. I do believe that, um, the, for the artistry, for the genius to come through, there's no comparison. Nobody else can do it or say it exactly the same way that I will.

Speaker 1:

It's true. And when you look at other people and what they're doing, it takes you out of that connection. Yeah. Um, and you're right. We're all individual unique expressions of God or divinity. And so, um, that uniqueness, if we just, like you said, I love, you said it earlier, step out of the way, just step out of the way and, and let it unfold unfold naturally.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Sounds so great. Why is it so challenging to do

Speaker 1:

well? You know, it's interesting. This has come up with almost every single one of my artist interviews is it's a practice. Um, and, and you do, you just have to keep practicing it. And there will be days where I just suddenly something I'll do a painting very quickly. And then there'll be weeks weeks where I'll be struggling with a painting and, and feel like I'm, I'm, uh, forcing myself through it. And, and you just keep, keep practicing.

Speaker 2:

Yes, it is a practice and anyone who practiced meditation for any length of time can absolutely make that comparison that, you know, at first you don't feel like you are doing anything but sitting in squirming and you know, and then, you know, really, maybe a year later, maybe three years later, and you've been meditating on a regular basis, some crisis comes up and you realize, Oh, I'm responding, not reacting. Oh, I feel really calm. Even though this is chaos. And it's like, the practice is sustaining it sustaining you. And that's the same, whether the practice is meditation or yoga or prayer or journaling, it's going to it time and time again. And then trusting that what is unfolding is perfect.

Speaker 1:

Hmm. That is wonderful. That is wonderful. I, um, I'm gonna share with my listeners, how I first encountered you and what one of the topics I wanted to talk about was I scheduled a session and had some spiritual coaching with you. You CA you came up with a process that I wanted to highlight in this, this conversation, um, which has to do with what we're just talking about, where you become the watcher, and you see the, the, the S the beliefs that are flying through your head. And, um, w w you work me through this, uh, you called it, um, you call it, change your thinking, change your life. And, and you had me draw it on a piece of paper, sort of a linear progression and, and how we have, we might have some thoughts or feelings in a certain situation. And they slowly become a belief. And it is our challenge, or at least that's what you said then, and please correct me if I'm saying it wrong. That when that belief, how do we behave towards that belief? What is the next step that, that step in between where we feel a belief, and then we react to it. But you, you pointed out to me that I can break that cycle. I can actually change how I behave towards that belief. Am I putting that in the correct way?

Speaker 2:

It's just fascinating to hear someone else play back your words. So I'm listening intently.

Speaker 1:

I heard you. I did hear you.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. And it, actually, if you know it, I'm taking a deep breath of blessing because it is, I mean, you are playing it back perfectly. Um, so there are a couple of places where you can change the whole outcome. And one of the places is to start with the behavior. And the reason I talk about this, uh it's uh, it's the, um, you know, so many of us have heard the phrase, change your thinking, change your life. So many of us believe and understand if I change my thinking, my life will change. However, what I often remind myself and others is that sounds like it's a one step process. I changed my thinking and my life will change. I start thinking a certain thing and I will receive it. And we forget to educate people about what is happening along the way. Because if I want to speed up the manifestation, if I want to influence the change, as much as I can, then I need to know what's happening in the middle. So that's what that whole process does. It has. You start with your thoughts and feelings and recognize that your thoughts and your feelings are what are the foundation they serve as the foundation for what you believe, and then what you believe drives your behavior. Just automatically, whatever I believe actually, I'm, I don't need to know what you believe. You don't need to tell me because the belief in its raw form is invisible, I guess, in your head or heart. But I can tell you what you believe by watching your behavior. I followed you around for 30 days in your waking hours and video recorded you. I could make a list of these are the things Chris really believes. I don't know what he said, but this is what he believes, because this is what he does. This is how he reacts. This is how he responds in these kinds of situations. And so if our beliefs drive our behavior, then our behavior becomes our habits. Those behaviors we repeat over and over and over again, where we don't even think about them anymore, become our habits. And it is on habits that change our life or our experience of life. So yeah, you can step in and really make a lot of, a lot of changes in your life by changing your behavior. And then it works backwards or to, you know, my behavior over and over and over again, teaches me new thoughts and feelings and new beliefs. Or you can start with your thinking, change your thinking, change your life. You can start with your thinking and use affirmations and use other mental and spiritual practices to build a new belief. And that then will also change your behavior because you believe something new now, and you won't do things the way you used to. Well, one of the things I liked about this process is if you look at it linearly, as you had me draw it out, um, you're right. It changes forward and backwards. So at any step of that process, if you change it, you will change the other

Speaker 1:

portions of the process. Um, so if you changed your expected behavior, for example, if I hear my voice saying my mother's voice in my head saying, Oh, you'll never be an artist in my belief immediately turns to, well, I'm a loser. And then my behavior is to walk away from the canvas. But if I decide, okay, I hear the belief. I hear that voice, but I don't walk away from the canvas. I don't respond to that belief. And I just say, that's not true. That's not true. I'm going to do a different behavior. Suddenly that cycle can be changed.

Speaker 2:

Yes. Because every time you stay at the canvas and you finish another painting and you put it to the side, you are through your behavior saying, I'm a painter. Not only am I an artist, I'm a damn good artist. I can do this. And so as every time you do that, then you're what you're doing is you're putting a new thought. And because you're proud of finishing it, you're connecting that thought with a very positive and powerful feeling. So your thoughts and feelings combined, and yes, it won't take long that your new belief will be, I'm a good painter. I'm an artist. I do this. And then your behavior is you're right back at behavior, but you can do that. That is what 12 steps does. All the recovery programs. They focus first on behavior, come to a meeting, come back tomorrow, come back tomorrow. May I know it's hard. I know you may not feel it's making a difference, but we can't just tell you to think differently. If we want to help you break the addiction. If we want to guide you in a way that you can break the addiction. So come to a meeting, right? So that behavior going to a meeting every day, being exposed to different people, different thoughts, different feelings, you are changing your belief. Oh, I, I didn't drink today. I didn't do drugs today. I didn't overspend today. I followed my health plan. My food plan today is focused on the behavior. Why and letting the behavior create new thoughts, new feelings and nucleus.

Speaker 1:

Well, and it's interesting, isn't this what we're dealing with right now in the society. What th all that's going on with, with, uh, black lives matter in these issues. It's these behaviors that are in our society that are, um, causing negative negative outcomes. And how do we step back and break that break, that chain, you know, um,

Speaker 2:

Ooh, that's a big one.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's a challenge. Isn't it? That is a very big one,

Speaker 2:

but is it, it is true that our individual life is just a mini, you know, a senior LER example, a singular expression of what goes on in the bigger life of all humanity. And so, you know, and every stage in between there. So, wow. Yeah, it is. If we, the consciousness that brought us here is not the consciousness that will take us where we want to go. So clearly the consciousness that societaly has brought us to this place of division, this place of anger, this place of distrust, this place of fighting and separation and racism and discrimination. That's where we are right now. Right. But if I want to change that, we want to change the life of the nation of the world, around a race, race based Patriot and violence, then yes, it's nice to say, think about it differently, but there are a lot of people who are long time that said, Oh, I think that's really horrible. Oh, you know, I think everybody should be treated. And I believe that everybody should be treated equally and I believe respect, but our behaviors have not demonstrated that. So yes, you have just set me on fire. We are going to focus on behavior, behavior behavior to build a new thoughts and new beliefs.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. It's, it's, it's truly the, it's, it's getting in touch with that spiritual, the spiritual artists within, and, and being self aware and, and noticing those things, you know, as you said, um, and practice, right,

Speaker 2:

right. Notice then act notice, then act awareness. Actually, I have a model that I use in, um, organizational work around diversity and inclusion, and it says a lot of times people think you can just go from awareness to action, but there's one step in between that is alignment awareness, then action. I mean, then alignment aligning it with what is important. Why do you want to take action now that you have this awareness? Why bother, well, this, I want to take action because of a, B and C, and then you take action. And then that action, you have to hold yourself accountable. So, you know, accountable for the change you want accountable for moving forward. So,

Speaker 1:

well, you know, w uh, in the last podcast, I talked to Terry Martin and he talked about intentions and, uh, the importance of, of paying attention to your intentions. And, and, and, and I love that. I love that, and how it resonates in it. And that's where you talk about where you were that in between stage, where you step back, um, and alignment, you know, what, what is the alignment about,

Speaker 2:

yeah,

Speaker 1:

it's almost about going back to your spiritual truth and, and, and, and, and seeing what you do really want to say here, or want to do here, or want to create.

Speaker 2:

Right. Right. So even like with your podcast, I, or I have an idea, and I want to, you know, I want to, I want to talk to people who are artists and spiritual, and, or I want to talk to people about how spirituality overlaps with how they are creatively expressing in the world. You know, I'm fascinated by that. And, and I'm aware of it in my own life. And so you could just take action when you have the idea, but when you talk about spiritual artists and how spirituality and art combined, when you talk about it, it's so clear, the alignment, the alignment that you understand both for yourself as an artist, that there is both cause and effect that is related to spirit, spiritual guidance and spiritual wisdom within you. And that you see that in other folks who aren't even aware of that's what's happening, but when they talk about it, that that dance is there and you want, and they alignment of, Oh, I see it in myself. And I want other people to recognize it so they can use it. It's like, Oh, now you can take out,

Speaker 1:

you know, that, that, that alignment that you're talking about, I was curious, cause we were talking about how you process through writing and writer's block. How about when you're speaking? Um, tell me about that when you're, when you're up on stage, is there a moment where you just let go and kind of go with the flow? Is it all pre recorded in your head? How do you handle that?

Speaker 2:

[inaudible] uh, that sounds like a truth or dare

Speaker 1:

question. I like to ask challenging questions.

Speaker 2:

Well, it's like, the answer is easy, but do really want people to go behind the screen. Right. I mean, do I really want to say that I just show up in the whatever spirit wants to say come out, which is not true. So, um, so there's a dance there, there is a balance because in speaking, whether it is a Sunday talk at, you know, a church or a spiritual center or whether it is a, um, I recently did a keynote speech for a state conference with about 2000 attendees. And, you know, no matter what it is,

Speaker 3:

aye.

Speaker 2:

Do the alignment piece, like what is my message, what message do I have through my education or my life experience that matches the needs for this group. So I'm doing that. And then I always, almost always have an outline of, here are the key points that I want to make. Point one 0.2 0.3. And with each key point, I will have a story or an example that I want to tell that story, share that story of an experience I've had, or there's a really powerful example in that community, in that industry or in that, um, organization. So, so there's a framework. I think that's probably even better, a better word than outline. I have a framework. And then as I'm talking to people right before the, you know, in the minutes or hours before giving the talk, as I am on the platform, the framework is there. And I would say 95% of the time, I get a, you know, a download, not in a mystical way, but I get redirected or I get an additional, a different story or a different example that I know I must share. So, and you react to it. And I accepted, right? Because otherwise what happens is I, you know, I could, I could say in my mind, which is where it happens, right. In my mind, I can say, no, I've already prepared this. I'm gonna stick with this. This is my, this is what I'm to do and ignore that inspired thoughts. But I learned a long time ago, like one of the great stories, one of my great, one of the great examples I have is I was doing a Sunday talk. And, um, I got this, this, this hit to tell this, to reframe what I was getting ready to use as an example, which was data-driven from a source, you know, a well known source. And it was like use that information as someone is shopping for a Prius. And so instead I tell the story about, you know, shopping. I tell it as a story, instead of just data about the process you go through when you're shopping for a Prius. And there's a part of my brain, this is so funny. Cause a part of my brain that was having a side conversation with itself going, this is so silly who shopping, Nope, you never shopped for a Prius. You don't even want a Prius. And you know, and, but I'm telling the story and giving the data in the context of shopping for a Prius after service, a woman comes up to me and she says, it was like, you were in my mind, I've been shopping for, and I think I, whatever color I said, he said, I've been shopping for. And she used that same color that a Prius. And I had all of those things getting in my way that you said. And so now this is the action that I'm going to take. And I'm like, Oh, okay. So, and you know, well, people will say when you write something or when you paint something or when you speak, when you are creatively expressing and someone comes up to you and they say, Oh, Chris, that painting right there, you painted that just for me, I trust. But I do go and prepare because I think that allows me to listen for,

Speaker 3:

okay,

Speaker 2:

spirits tweak on my framework.

Speaker 1:

There's a balance. Um, some people that I've interviewed, they talk about, um, there's a technical knowhow and then there's flow and, and both of those come into play. So you bring in your framework, but you also bring in your sense of flow. And, and when you speak of that woman coming out of the audience, it, it goes back to the whole fact that, of oneness that we are all connected.

Speaker 2:

Um, and our stories are, and yes, yes, yes. And yes. And I do love that. I, um, balance between, you know, there are times when I am perfect just in the flow and I am in the creative process. And that is usually when I am just, you know, I'm journaling. So I journal a lot, I write poetry and I'm doing it for me. And so it's different when I know I'm preparing for an audience, but they do come together. And like in speaking, they come together in writing, they come together because I'm just taking a breath to think one, two, three, the last three books. And actually the very first book I wrote 20 years ago, all utilize things that I wrote con some of the content was content I wrote when I didn't even know I was writing this book.

Speaker 1:

Well, I think that there's sometimes with the creative process, we don't know where it's gonna end, you know? Uh, and, and that's a perfect example where you just, those came out of you, you wrote them and you wrote them in suddenly at some point you thought, Oh, I ha I have a book here.

Speaker 2:

Oh yeah. Oh my goodness. Let's now let's, let's return to earlier in this conversation when we were talking about writer's block, because what just happened just like Liz is the recognition that part of what was going on that created the writer's block was, um, I was writing for a publication with a deadline that was, you know, not a deadline from within me, but a deadline that was given to me based on their needs for meeting, you know, editing, copy, editing artwork, taking it to the printer, having it printed all of these external things that, you know, don't concern me in terms of the creative process. And I, and because it's a publication I need, I need my writing to be completely in alignment with their readers.

Speaker 3:

Thanks.

Speaker 2:

So there was a lot of, there were a lot of checkpoints that made it harder for me to simply be in the flow to simply be the expression of flow, because at every step of the way I had to check in with, is it going to meet this audience, this publications, philosophy, this publications, readership expectations. And it wasn't about skill. It was, it was like putting blinders on and in the creative process, normally it's, there are no, there's no boundaries. There's no circumference. There's no, it's like go anywhere. So, Oh, so, Hey, this is great. I'm so glad you invited me to be a guest on your podcast so that I could have my own spiritual insight and growth. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

That's always good. It's always a good, uh, wrap up there then. Well, I mean, it, I definitely, I want wanna, before we let you go, I do want to bring up one thing because we, you know, we have our lives overlap and, and I discovered this in your, in your bio and, and brought it up the other day, but that you had co-founded Dallas dinner table. Um, I wanted to tell the listeners briefly that this is a program that I participated in, which is, uh, a wonderful program. And so finding out that you had, uh, co-founded, that was just amazing to me. Cause it's sorta like seeing what you talk about seeing behind the curtain and, and I'm like, Oh my God, I just think that's the most incredible program. And if you don't know about it, listeners, you can look it up, but it's a program where you're invited to, uh, share a dinner break, break dinner, uh, together with people from diverse backgrounds. And Tracy, maybe you can explain that a little bit, but it, it, it opens conversation and it's, it's a wonderful tool to open safe conversations. Um, Tracy, can you just the

Speaker 2:

Dallas dinner table, there was a lot of racial tension and misunderstanding in this, in the Dallas and North Texas area. So this Dallas dinner table was put together was created to ensure that people could break through stereotypes and assumptions and biases. So the I, the fourth framework is that there are dinners, as you said, Chris. And the idea was, you know, when people sit down and they share a meal and they talk with, with a purpose of just getting to know each other, that they will have individuals that they know, and they will move away from the stereotypes of all black people that do this are most right. People think this, or most people who are, um, Indian or Asian, you know, that's how they think or that's what they do. And so, yes, the subtitle for a of years was healing racism, one dinner at a time. And the intention really was to focus on race. And it is it's beautiful. It's a beautiful process. It's a healing process. And thousands of people have found that they developed relationships with the people. They were, you know, they were scheduled with that. They met, they continued to meet or they'd have lunch, or, you know, four or five people from the group of eight to 10, really got to know each other. And our friends later,

Speaker 1:

right. It is a powerful program. We hosted it at our house twice. First, we attended one and then we hosted it twice. It's incredibly moving people open up and tell their own stories. And it, it, it opens your heart and it, it may be, it breaks that cycle of belief to behavior,

Speaker 2:

right? Because so many of our beliefs debt, we're not even conscious of because they were formed. You know, when we weren't consciously choosing them, we just picked it up and we don't even realize we believe it. And so, yeah, it breaks through that unconscious bias or at least it has the potential to, and that's why the groups are eight to 10 people, um, going through the process together rather than, you know, 80 people are 100 people. So you really have time to, you really have time. You know, even though it's only two and a half hours or three hours of time, there's time because of the questions that are asked and the structure that is there, there's time to get a snapshot for, Oh, I didn't even realize that. I thought that, but this is telling me or showing me, and now I'm curious. Right, right. If we can tap into curiosity,

Speaker 3:

cool.

Speaker 2:

We can find more information that also then allows us to be more creative and expand our beliefs.

Speaker 1:

Well, I definitely want loved that program. I had to mention it in here so people can look it up and research it. I want to thank you for taking the time out and sharing your process. Good, bad, and the ugly, uh, uh, looking behind the curtain, so to speak. Uh, I, I love the, the talk about being a speaker. And I think there is a part where there's flow just jumps in and you, and you go with it, even if it's in the form of a red Prius, who knows where that red Prius is going to take us. So just go with it, just go with it. So I thank you very much, Tracy. And I look forward to actually seeing you more and, uh, wish you the best.

Speaker 2:

Thanks, Chris and Oh, artists, all artists and all forms. Yes. That spiritual foundation is there. Thanks for reminding me and all of us have that.

Speaker 1:

All right. You're welcome. Take care.

Speaker 2:

Bye.

Speaker 1:

Thanks again for listening to the spiritual artist podcast, whether you're watching this show on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google play, or iHeartRadio, make sure you choose the subscribe button so that you will receive updates when new segments are released, most importantly, be still listen and know that you are a spiritual artist.