Host Christopher Miller interviews Dallas yoga teacher Lisa Coyle on the mind-body connection. She shares how the body carries the burdens held by the mind and the ways that we can release these stored emotions. Conversation highlights include using breath as a bridge between body and mind and what Eckhart Tolle means by his term Pain Body. Plus, discover how Yoga Nidra can shift your mind with the 61 Point Relaxation Practice that corrals the mind’s movement. According to Lisa, the cure is right next to the body and when we learn to quiet the mind we reveal the intrinsic power of healing. Practice with Lisa at The Mat Yoga Studio in Dallas, https://www.thematyogastudio.com/.
Host Christopher Miller interviews Dallas yoga teacher Lisa Coyle on the mind-body connection. She shares how the body carries the burdens held by the mind and the ways that we can release these stored emotions. Conversation highlights include using breath as a bridge between body and mind and what Eckhart Tolle means by his term Pain Body. Plus, discover how Yoga Nidra can shift your mind with the 61 Point Relaxation Practice that corrals the mind’s movement. According to Lisa, the cure is right next to the body and when we learn to quiet the mind we reveal the intrinsic power of healing. Practice with Lisa at The Mat Yoga Studio in Dallas, https://www.thematyogastudio.com/.
Welcome to the spiritual artists podcast. This is Chris Miller. I invite you to join me as I interview artists from a variety of disciplines. We'll share powerful stories and lessons learned while making their art. This is Chris with the spiritual artist podcast. I have a special guest today. Her name is Lisa coil. She is a yoga and meditation teacher, a holistic health coach, and I are Vedic lifestyle specialist. She's also my meditation and yoga coach for the last Oh five or seven years after attending her class. I've noticed this interesting correlation between your mind and your body. I'm looking forward to talking to Lisa about this relationship. As we progress and learn more and more about a spiritual artist, I would define a spiritual artist as someone that is consciously connected, present, and inspired while practicing their discipline. Let's take a look at what Lisa has to share. Lisa, good morning. Good morning. Chris. It's so great to have you in on this call.
Speaker 2:Thank you. I'm so thrilled to be speaking with you.
Speaker 1:The reason I wanted to talk to you so much is as you know, I've done a lot of reading on uh, new thoughts, spirituality, personal growth and it's all been cerebral. You know, I put everything in my head and after I'm taking your class, I would sit there on, on the mat and hear you say something and it would just move me so much. And um, I realized that oftentimes I have approached life from trying to use my mind to shift my body, you know, whether that's eating practices or belief systems, but when I've worked with you, I've realized that there is a different direction you can go, uh, where yeah. Where the body can actually shift the mind. And I'm hoping you can open my eyes on this.
Speaker 2:Well, that's beautiful. Um, I love that observation and it's always such a joy. Um, you know, this my development to a mutual admiration society for just a moment, but this such a joy to have a student who is so open and interested and, and really is in practice more than just trying to stretch their hamstrings or fix a low back. You know, as teacher, when a student really hears, um, these, these lessons that we're giving, it sits so gratifying. So I appreciate you, um, as a student, very much so. What you're experiencing is in yoga we say the teachings reveal that there are layers to each human being and that the body is the first layer that we are most familiar with. It's the one we experience on a daily basis. Um, it's very and dense. By gross I don't mean yucky, right? Very debt heavy and it's, it's very, you know, temporal, it changes, there's a lot of sensation to it. So it's constantly drawing our attention. It is the furthest removed in terms of the layers that the yogis say that we have, which are there five when we can go through that real quickly. But it is the layer that's furthest removed from who we truly are. So the body is the least subtle and the most obviously most worldly, most earthbound part of us. And so we're very caught up in it and the mind is not just below the body, but the mind is off. Also. It's actually two levels closer to the self than the body. So between the body and the mind is what they call the energetic body or the body of breath or energy. And so in yoga, what we do as we're working with the body, which you're familiar with, is we use the breath in very specific intentional ways to create this link between the body and the mind. So the breath is really the bridge that we use because we have, um, anatomical muscles, muscular, uh, capability to manage the flow of our breath. But then also the body is going to breathe whether we do anything about that or not. Right. That's interesting. Cause as I was taking your classes, I remember, you know, you listen to the teacher talk and some of it just goes right over your head. And I remember suddenly realizing how important breath was and you said it all the time, but suddenly I listened. Well, you know, and that's, we all are like that. We're all like that and we hear something over and over again and it just doesn't sink in. Right. And that's, there's a lot of reasons for that. But the, the important reason, the important thing to remember as a student is that you'll hear it when you're ready to hear it. So, you know, to allow a certain level of ease. But what I think that's so special about you is you create what I call space. Hmm. When people walk into that room, there is, there's a feeling to the room that you hold for people. Um, I've taken classes in painting and I used to go to Santa Fe and have a mentor and I always noticed how she held that room. There was, there was a consciousness that she held. And when you go in there, you just, you knew it was a safe place. Hmm. And, and you knew that you could explore and, and, and I love that about you. That's why I keep coming to your class and seeking you out. I think that's why so many people do. Well, thank you. I, I appreciate that. And, um, I will again, uh, as a fellow student, I will just say that what you're experiencing is when an I feel that when I'm with my teacher and I think as a new teacher that was not necessarily always the case. I'm in my class and I could feel as I taught more when that was happening. And you have to, and this is where I think it's so, um, integral into what you are talking about on this podcast that there is an unloved, um, Robin, the guests that you can. So what she was talking about, I was listening to it and you know, we've said so many of these lessons you just hear over and over and over again in different genres. But what she was talking about, I kept going. Yes, that's exactly that. When you learn as a teacher, just so like a student to trust the process, you allow yourself as a teacher to also be held in that space. So that I'm, I am holding space for you and I have the knowledge and the experience right, to guide you through your practice. But what happens, you know, yoga class where everybody's in one room together someday that will happen again is that there's an alchemy. Really there's a magic that happens, but I truly believe it is that the students really only feel it when the teacher is also able to surrender into that. And, and by that what I mean is I don't want to get to like, you know, we will win out there, but it is that what Robin described as that one energy in yoga, we would just call it consciousness and consciousness in the yoga tradition or in this application that we're talking is present and consciousness is intelligent and consciousness is loving and compassionate and incredibly spacious and has room for everything at all times with no differentiation. So as a teacher, when you are able to use yes, your intellectual knowledge and training and experience to properly guide your students, you do have to have that critical by the way. Um, but then when you've been teaching long enough or you're just gifted and as some new teachers actually are to just allow yourself to let consciousness hold the whole space. But my experience is that that is, that happens mostly for students when the teacher is able to do it. Interesting. Cause they, they set the tone and exactly. And students are giving themselves to the teacher. Right. And so if the teacher is all up in their head then so typically the students will be as well. Well you know, it's interesting that you mentioned cause for the last six weeks, this whole
Speaker 1:uh, social distancing started. I have been at home and I let my yoga go and, and I did call in a couple of times and do it online, but it started, it started, I can feel it, I can feel it in my body. The tension is coming up and, and so I take him to class last night it was like, Oh my gosh, thank God. And, and, and I wanted to tell you this, I don't know if I've ever shared this with you, but over the years sometimes I would be doing a practice, especially when I had some emotion that I was going through. My father passed away a couple of years ago and I remember I was dealing with it. I'm fine. And then I would be doing yoga in your session and suddenly I would just feel some tears come to my eyes because there was this release, this release of the hurt, the loss. My father was gone and, and I'm like, where's this coming from? I'm just doing poses, right. I'm just doing poses.
Speaker 2:I love that. And um, you know, one of my, what my teacher rod Stryker and yoga ripper, rod Stryker always says that if you have not cried on your mat yet, just because it's going to come, it's going to happen. And the reason that it does is the body carries the burdens that are held by the mind and the mind is holding burdens and memories and thoughts and feelings and emotions. And when those become either overwhelming or we just deemed them as inconvenient, we shove them down body being this amazing receptacle that it is just hold it for us, but it's just holding it without some sort of intentional practice. It's just going to stick there. And what yoga allows us to do is to let the body then transform that energy, which all thought is just energy. Whether it's an intellectual idea or an emotion, it's just energy. Emotions are stored in the body. Intellectual ideas just move around so those emotions get stored in the body. And so when we move the body in such way, the breath remember then is that bridge, right? That's that. Then them, now the mind and the body are coming together again and whatever is in the body is either going to come out in the form of emotion or it may come to the mind as a revelation. Or sometimes there's actually a physical experience like excessive sweating or nausea, you know, or
Speaker 1:coughing or laughing or you know, sometimes I have that. I've had that happen too where I just start laughing. I leave your class and I'm laughing and I'm like, why am I laughing? But, uh, you know, I think I've shared this with you that that Eckerd a, he talks about the pain body and, and
Speaker 2:how we hold that pain and, and it's really interesting and I think that's kind of what I wanted to share this with my listeners for is it's tough. We're going through tough times. You know, this is, we're isolated, we're stuck in our house with our family who we love, but really close, we're losing that opportunity for our practice. You know, where we go to yoga. And so it's important to realize that your body can be a release, whether you, whether you do yoga online or go out and shoot some hoops or jog. Exactly. No, you're so, it's absolutely right. And listen, any physical movement is good for your body in your mind. You know, it's, it's just true. Any physical movement obviously done safely is good for your body and your mind because it is moving energy that gets stuck. And you know, I also had another teacher who said, I loved this phrase. He'd say, I take my trash out every Tuesday, but I don't always pick through it. You know, sometimes just feeling better is enough. And sometimes though these things might come up often enough that requires some reflection and contemplation on our part, you know, to understand why does something keep coming up for me.
Speaker 1:Well, what's so interesting about that metaphor with taking your trash out is I have a tendency to be the type a person and I want to look at each piece of trash and figure it out. Why, why, why am I feeling this way? And sometimes going right up against it like that, it's just not the way to go.
Speaker 2:Well, and again, if we want to just, you know, beat this metaphor to death, which I love to, you know, um, you know, I would say in terms of like what kind of things in your trash you're picking through, it's like what's really stinky? Some things just get put in there because they belong in the trash. Right. You know? And, but other stuff may be starts to stink cause it's been in there too long, you know, so, um, that may be just the stinky parts that were really to look at.
Speaker 1:And so the idea being is that sometimes we, we don't have to think through problems.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So the mind though. So let's see. Let's go back to, so the body is the first layer of the energy body as the second to breath. The mind is the third layer. So again, another phrase is saying is that the mind makes a wonderful servant and a horrible master. So in yoga we, we look at the mind as, gosh, I've listened to before I get, I'm going to go off and just a tiny bit of attention. So I'll hope that's all right with that. We're good. Um, I listened to a lovely lecture the other day for my teacher's teacher and he has a pundit rush money take a night of the Himalayan Institute. Brilliant, beautiful soul. And he was saying that for every ailment it's cure is right next to it. Huh. And I loved that. And it really kind of made me look at the intrinsic power that we all have to heal from whatever it is that we're going through. And other times, sometimes it feels like we cannot possibly get through what it is we're going through. But yoga says your mind got you there because it was clouded and messed up out of balanced and confused. But your mind can also, he'll you taking it can solve this problem for you, but only until we get all of the cloudiness off of the mind. So the mind has to then be, my teacher calls it, each layer of the being has to be glorified and purified in order for us to see reality properly. So that clouded mind created our suffering. But the clearing of the mind is the, is one of our first doorways to um, to freedom. Hmm. So we have to clear the mind that we can't look at it as the enemy all the time because it really is it. We have to go through that layer of our being to then get to the body of beliefs, which is just under the mind, which psychology would call that the subconscious mind. Right? And yoga, we see no real differentiation between subconscious and unconscious. So, Oh, that's interesting. Yeah. I've used the metaphor of a snow globe and you know, when it's all shaken up and I, in my own life, I see, I'm like, I just can't see anything but, but the blizzard and you know, when it all settles and I get that, you know, last night when I took your class and you just worked through it and, and how you walk us through, um, w is it the Neidra process, right. Yeah. And, and it's wonderful where you just kind of shut down that mind and I follow along with you. Um, I'm going to bring this up and I know, I don't know how to say it. The points of light. Yes. Yeah. So that, I know that's your favorite one. I knew going in, I was like, you were there and now we were not going to do one point. And I know you never are happy when you don't get your points of light. But, um, so there's, yeah, there's different ways of practicing, but that what you're referring to as a practice called the 61 point relaxation practice or um, the yoga, uh, name is the Chevette Jatara practice, which translates to the journey through the corpse or journey of the corpse. So the Corpus, right, the body. So the 61 points are, are taking awareness and generally we can we, so we can either just rest our attention at that point. It is easier for most of us if we use something there like a point of light or a flame or a color, like a dot or something. Just some way of taking the mind more in a more concrete way, um, into a place that's very, very subtle. So it's moving the mind through these various points that, um, in the tradition are considered, uh, intersections in the body where there's a lot of energy. Every different energetic pathways come together in these connection points. There's more energy. So we take our mind through these places of energy and they're mostly, as you experienced, there's so there's the center of the brain, there's the throat, the shoulder joints. It goes through all the major joints, fingertips and toes. And then it goes down the spine to the, um, to the base of, to the sacrum, which is the top of the pelvis. And that's when it then shoots down into the legs. So it's moving awareness through the body and seeing the light at those points and what's super helpful so that there's a physiological benefit to that. That's, that's subtle, but, um, it's definitely happening. But what it ha it helps with the mind is to corral its movement. And those, you and I both have very active minds. Most of us do, but some of us, our minds just tend to move more rapidly than others. And that's having something like that that's specific that it's just a nice container, you know, for the mind. And one of, uh, punditry pundit rush money ticket nights, um, teachings is that the mind is only really calm when it is at home in the body. And those of us who practice yoga, we feel that, you know, when our mind is thinking it's spinning and our images that the, that the thoughts are almost in a cloud bubble over our head. Right? But the mind is spinning and our thoughts are out there but the minute we can bring the mind into the body and, and actually rest it somewhere in our body, these places of energy are most effective and easiest for the mind to rest. And the mind automatically gets pretty quiet and it gets more still. And in that, in the teaching of yoga Nedra then when that mind becomes more quiet, more still, we can actually make it go to sleep and still be aware. And that's when we get this amazing physiological benefit of being in deep rest. It's the brain way that that moment is identical to our brainwaves in deep non REM sleep where the body really heals and repairs and detoxifies. So that is from the physiological, that's why yoga Nedra is so incredibly healing is that it we're able to take ourselves on purpose to a place of deep healing and deep rest.
Speaker 1:I definitely think that that has helped me, um, for, for our listeners, what you, what I do is I'm almost projecting my mind into that point of light. And if it's at the wrist, suddenly my mind isn't in above my head as you were saying, but it's in my wrist and it's in my elbow, then it's in my shoulder and it's so dang busy going through those places that it can't run. Do the monkey mind thing, right? Yeah. It's like a little leash tethered in the body and it keeps you on, on, on it. And what's funny when you talk about going into that place, that's what I call, that's where I get creative inspiration as, as an artist, that's where something will just pop in my head. You, you know, you get that divine idea and it's like, I should do this or I should call that person. It's, it's that middle ground. Right,
Speaker 2:right. Yeah. And so that without your mind though, so you never would have been able to receive that information and to then act on it. Right. So, um, so your mind is, it's, it's our, again, it's the problem and the cure sitting right next to each other. So I'm gonna I'm really contemplating that more and I'm going to listen to I think a pundit, she has another talk on that. I loved that. Especially right now as you say, during the pandemic. Um, you know, there's, there's just so much that we're all going through separately, but collectively, and even though, you know, some people are really using this time for contemplation, I'm very blessed that I'm in a situation where I can use this time for more practice and more study and more contemplation. Um, but some people, this is really, really bad. You know, they're fearful. They, they are losing their income. There are people who are battling addiction. And to be alone with stress in these times is dangerous for them. There are people who are in unhealthy living situations, you know. Um, so we're all in, you know, having a challenging experience. But some of, for some of us, our challenges are very, very different. And from when you look at it in that regard, honestly, as a teacher, that's why I need more contemplation around that. How for somebody who is in an unhealthy living situation where, how is their cure sitting right next to their problem? Right? Um, so just from a student, you know, as a student, I want deeper clarity on that, but at the same time, in my own, from my own perspective, I can look back on challenges that I've had, um, through my life and I can see, yeah, the cure was sitting right next to that problem was right there. Of course, I didn't see it. No, right. Mine was clouded, took a walk for the mind to get clear enough to see that. So that's, so again, it requires a certain level of trust and that, that you have to do that. You have to be able to, to find some way, some tools or technique that allow you to get the mind to find clarity so that you can see, because consciousness, the teaching says, and I think this is your creative muse and inspiration, that field that you talk about, consciousness is just right there. It's all around us, it's in us, it's right there. And it is just, it's the thinnest sheet away from our understanding. And you know, as a student it's like, okay, I believe that I really did. And sometimes I feel it and other times it's like the cloud is so thick. Well it's interesting cause you mentioned that you, even though you've been doing this for 18 some years, there are, you're still, you still jump back and forth between the role of a teacher and a student. Absolutely. So I've been a student since I was 19. I had been teaching since I was 18 and so I'm 58. So I've been a student for a long, long time. And um, so I've traveled many, many paths as a student. Some of them are good students, some of them are bad students. And then there was a rebellious and lazy student. We've all been there right. Lately I've been very, very happy and you know, sort of what I think the second or third act of my life where now I'm, you know, I'm steady, I'm still enough to where my, um, uh, my student ship has improved greatly. Yeah. I love that. I think it is, uh, there is a bit about maybe this is the planet or whatever, making us be still. I, yeah. I so I think so. I think, um, you know, I think nature is just like you people how got to sit down. So again, here's another tangent. My son loves artisanally brewed beers and so he went down, I'll give a little shout out to a cute little brewery called petricolas brewery and he went down to get some beer, some beers, and he brought one back and it's called sit down or I'll sit you down. I thought, you know, that's what my grandfather used to say, that that's kind of what nature did. Yes. She said, okay, sit down or I'll sit you down. Yeah, I think you're right. I'm going nuts. And you just got everybody pissed to tap the brakes. Let's take a pause and we see how some people are kind of settled into this stillness and this pause and other people. It's making them freak out. I go back and forth. Right. But I mean we see that as teachers, we see that, you know, with students who we ask to be still and who are very uncomfortable with stillness. You and again,
Speaker 1:what my teacher, he says that jitteriness is not coming from your body. Well that's interesting cause I, that was another lesson I learned to taking your classes. I realized early on that you'd be having us hold a pose and I'd be shifting and shifting and shifting and now I'm able to just
Speaker 2:hold it. Yeah, that is your mind. That is 100% your mind. And again, we give a lot of power to the body, you know, well my body feels like this so I have to respond to that. Right. Mind is like, okay, you know, it just follows around, just does what it's, you know, kind of follows its own craziness. But, and if the body responds to those sensations, I mean the mind responds to body sensations. So if we're not used to taking a break from the chatter of the mind, then we can go, Oh my gosh, my thighs are burning. Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. And we can't think about anything else.
Speaker 1:No. That's why I love it. Cause I'd be it, it's the pain of holding the pose. I'm focused on the pain and my mind stops it, it just shuts up. You know, it shuts up because it's like, Oh my God, that risk is that risk, that risk. Yeah. But that's not to scare people because it's a wonderful experience. I don't mean to scare anybody. It is true. It's, it's about that training the mind, so to speak. Um, I noticed something in the class last night that you said, and I love it because this is another thing I've learned when I'm taking your class. You always say these wonderful things and my mind is grabbing it and trying to hold it and I'm like, but I got to do the next pose. But last night you said, I feel that the more you can let go, the more you are supported. And I thought, Oh my gosh, this should be on a quote. This is a, this should be sent out social media, right. Feel that the more you can let go that you are actually more, the more you are supported. And that goes back to what you were just saying. The answer is right there.
Speaker 2:It's right there. And yes. So that, that particular phrase used to come to me a lot in my own nitro practice. Just like, cause I'm, I, you know, I'm a holder, I, you know, I'm very physical, I'm very body bound and so I'm really wrapped up in all the sensations, you know, my mind is so I get, can get really distracted by all the sensations. He was just like let go, let go. And then you can actually feel your body on the floor. Wow. As you can't feel the floor underneath you. If you're holding your body up away from it, out of habit, unconsciously, then you can let go. And now you're really actually being held. And at a, during the yoga drip certification that I did with my teacher nine day training, um, after over a year of studying that particular technique was, he said during, during one of the yoga intro things, the more you can let go, the more he will be supported.
Speaker 1:I almost sat up, I was like, wait a minute,
Speaker 2:did I or did I hear it from him? You know what I mean? I don't know. Who knows? Consciousness. Well, we're all connected like you were talking about. So who cares what it came from. But it, there's so many broad applications to it, not just lying on the floor trying to relax, but the more you can as a teacher, that's that creative place that we began the conversation talking about. The more you can let go and let consciousness hold the space, the more you deported. And the more your students are supported. And from a, just from a practical standpoint, as a teacher, um, you use a lot less energy. You know, it can be exhausting trying to figure everything out for every single body in the room, right? Using your mind and feeling personally responsible for every single body in the room is exhausting. And when consciousness is holding the space and as a teacher and when you're allowing yourself to be carried by that energy and again want to reiterate using your training and your knowledge and your expertise, now you are, you are not even effortlessly taking care of all your students because it's not you doing it. It's consciousness. Um, so it's, it's so much more effortless and yet a deeper, richer experience as a teacher. Excuse me, but, but I think, you know, my, my students, the more that I've been able to do this as a teacher, my students benefit. And so it's an a, you know, I would love to say thank you for it. I need to me, I just say thank you to my teacher for bringing me as his student and to that place and my teacher whenever, whenever he is, um, addressing somebody who said, Oh, well you did this for me or you did that for me. He will say, I'm so glad I've been blessed with an amazing teacher. Wow. And so that was one of the things that most attracted me to him. And, and now I feel the truth of that, you know, it's, it's not about really any of us individually, but it is about all of us collectively. And we all can hold each other up. Right. And not, not only are we sometimes the student and sometimes the teacher, but we also have teachers. We all, I have to say, I think that about you all the time, you know, and, and I love, love coming in and doing it and practicing with you. And even online you can feel that. Thanks. I'll tell you that this, this being in the online world, trying to teach in my little empty room to the little green light now. Um, and I can see the faces, but I, my video has to be bigger, you know, so I'm looking at myself, which is distracting. And so, you know, I've talked to some of my other teacher friends and, and again, just I, just to repeat from the beginning of that, there is an alchemy, you know, that that word, that means that there's just as magical transformation from one thing to another that occurs in a yoga class where, and it's consciousness. And so where you have this individual teacher and all of these other individual students and we all come in from our disparate places with all of the different conversations going on in our individual minds. And we all come to a place by grace teachings is the teachings are that we are all delivered into that place through grace, that ability to surrender into consciousness. And, but that's, that's where we are all. Well, I think, well thank you. I mean, thanks for taking this time and talking to me on the, on the, on this podcast. I'm so excited. Like I said, I think we're all doing the same thing. We're all being creative spiritual artists, but in different disciplines. Yes. I look forward to, uh, talking to you soon and I will see you later. Okay, thanks Chris. Bye. Bye.
Speaker 1:Thanks again for listening to the spiritual artist podcast. Whether you're watching this show on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google play, or iHeartRadio, make sure you choose the subscribe button so that you will receive updates when new segments are released. Most importantly, be still listen and know that you are a spiritual artist.