Host Christopher Miller interviews North Texas jewelry designer and painter Dana Brock on the opportunities presented by perfectionism during the creative process. Dana details how she learned to embrace imperfection in her jewelry design and was surprised to discover customers seeking out those inconsistencies. Dana introduces the ancient Japanese tradition of Wabi-sabi; an aesthetic described as one of beauty that is "imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete.”
While pursuing imperfection requires vulnerability, the rewards are endless according to Dana. Conversation also includes discussion of Twyla Tharpe’s exploration of hardwired Creative DNA in every artist. Dana participates in the Urban Artist Market and the Millhouse Art-fest. Her work is always presented at the MillHouse ArtBlock in the Cotton Mill, where she keeps a studio under the name, “Dzyn by Dana.” For more information, visit https://www.dana-brock-studio.com and https://www.dzynbydana.com
Host Christopher Miller interviews North Texas jewelry designer and painter Dana Brock on the opportunities presented by perfectionism during the creative process. Dana details how she learned to embrace imperfection in her jewelry design and was surprised to discover customers seeking out those inconsistencies. Dana introduces the ancient Japanese tradition of Wabi-sabi; an aesthetic described as one of beauty that is "imperfect, impermanent, and incomplete.”
While pursuing imperfection requires vulnerability, the rewards are endless according to Dana. Conversation also includes discussion of Twyla Tharpe’s exploration of hardwired Creative DNA in every artist. Dana participates in the Urban Artist Market and the Millhouse Art-fest. Her work is always presented at the MillHouse ArtBlock in the Cotton Mill, where she keeps a studio under the name, “Dzyn by Dana.” For more information, visit https://www.dana-brock-studio.com and https://www.dzynbydana.com
Welcome to the spiritual artists podcast. This is Chris Miller. I invite you to join me as I interview artists from a variety of disciplines. We'll share powerful stories and lessons learned while making their art. Good morning. This is Chris Miller with the spiritual artist podcast. Today I'm in conversation with Dana Brock. She is an artist and jewelry designer located in Dallas, Texas. She's also a good friend of mine. She has been in several of my urban artists market shows, um, and we've had some recent wonderful conversations on the idea of perfection and imperfection and how that improves the process or how that can be used in the creative process. So, uh, Dana, good morning.
Speaker 2:Good morning, Chris.
Speaker 1:How are you today? Good. We keep hitting at the same time. Um, so, so tell me what we talked about this, and I love this story about jewelry making, because you said that you started doing jewelry first.
Speaker 2:Yes. I started creating jewelry about 18 years ago. I'm still in love with the process and did it more as a hobby at first and then decided to open my business.
Speaker 1:Okay. So one of the things you're talking about is that, you know, as an artist, we all struggle with the idea that everything we do has to be perfect. And we have something in our mind, we have a vision in our mind of what perfect is. Um, and I imagine with jewelry, that would even be more so because like with earrings they have to match or at least you think they have to match, right?
Speaker 2:Correct. Yes. At least I started out that way, started out with the idea that they had to be perfect. And if they weren't perfect, they went in the scrap heap. But, um, you know, you want them to match, you want them to be perfect. I guess you didn't want cookie cutter stuff. You wanted a unique, interesting things, but they had to be equal size, equal shape and hang correctly. And it was harder on earrings because you had to, and trying to make two things look identical is it's difficult. And chasing that idea of perfection creates its own levels of challenges, stresses, uh, it's time consuming because you keep working at it, keep working at it to try and make it look perfect.
Speaker 1:Well, how, how do you get past that? How do you work past that?
Speaker 2:It's hard, especially as an artist and when you're trying to build a business, uh, you think that's what everybody's looking for, but I basically stumbled into it one day when I kind of an uneven wonky pair of earrings and I liked him. I thought they were really kind of cool. And I thought, well, I'll put these out there and see what happens if nobody likes them. No problem I'll wear it. And to my surprise, they were gone within a couple of days. And the comment was that they really liked, the lady really liked the organic natural shape of them. She goes, you don't see things like this. And I really like it. I thought, okay, let's keep trying best. And so it kind of built upon that, but it was so fun and so freeing because instead of trying to make everything perfect, I was trying to make it imperfect. It was great and expanded into necklaces and bracelets and rings. And the idea was that let's just see where we can go with this
Speaker 1:And that's pretty wild. So, so you found that actually people were, or some people are more attracted to something that's not perfect.
Speaker 2:Yes. Yes. I have a few people who, uh, liked him, but they said my life things to be perfect, but it's just not for them. And that's fine. You know, everybody jewelry's personal, you know, what, what you like and what you want to wear. And, but there were a lot of people who really liked the imperfection of it. In fact, I was at a show one, uh, an art Fest and had a lady come up and she couldn't decide between two Berry earrings, their ear threads, that the change thread through your ears. And she had a triangular pear and hoop pair and she just kept going back forth. I don't know which pair I liked better. I said, I want a beach by one hoop and one triangle. She said, do that. And I said, why not wear one of these? And she loved it. And it was, she said, I love you delighted by day, but why not? Why not wear them different? Uh, we're a pair that's, uh, a circle and a square or silver and a gold or whatever. It's fun, quirky.
Speaker 1:Well, it's interesting because I think as artists we're trained in society teaches us for, we have a vision in our mind of something having to be a certain way. And, and I know as a painter that has held me back, you know, where in my mind I might early on, when I started painting, I had an expectation of what a Daisy looks like this, you know, it has to have these perfect leaves and they have to be balanced and, and the lighting has to be perfect. And it was only through some trial and error that I realized sometimes a rough edge, you know, a messy edge or something that wasn't exactly in alignment was more interesting artistically, you know, to the human eye.
Speaker 2:I agree. I think it's a, it is more interesting texture shape, raw, the roughness of something. Uh, I like things that aren't perfect in painting also, you know, just lines that you can interpret different ways. Um, I may see something in it. You may see something different, but it's really fun to have the imperfection in the painting.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I love your, your paintings because they are so whimsical. And, um, so is that how you got past that, that editor in your head, you know, when you're painting, how, how, how do you do that? How did you get these, you know, you'll have these whimsical drawings with flowers and faces and all, how does that happen?
Speaker 2:Uh, well, you know, you hear that saying, um, a lot that artists fear a blank canvas, and I just remember reading one time, just get out there and paint, just paint, just play, just throw something on the campus. So I started doing that. Uh, I kind of pick, I got to where I started picking a limited palette of colors instead of just throwing just whatever on there and figuring it out afterwards. But I, I kind of pick a limited palette of colors and just put them randomly on a blank campus. And then I have certain, uh, things that I like to use for line making marks and line making. I do a lot of that with my left hand, because I don't want them to be accurate. Let my left hand my nondominant hand. Perfect. I don't want it to be perfect flowers. I don't want to be per faces are perfect lines. So I draw with my left hand and then once it dries, kind of stand back and look at the canvas and, um, turn it different ways to see what I might see and what might want to come out of it. But that gets me going, gets me propelled into the painting. And then who knows where it's going to go from there, like the flowers. I don't make them to look like certain flowers or kind of made up lines in there that, well, that kind of looks like a flower. So let's do that. And I do a lot of negative space painting where I painted the background and the flowers kind of emerged around it, which is very cool. I just love painting that way. So who knows what it's going to turn out to be like, sometimes it's a total surprise.
Speaker 1:So I love this because rather than, um, freezing up, which a lot of artists do, they just walk away because of that perfection, you've kind of almost, you're kind of walking toward it. You're, you're actually, you know, you say embracing the imperfection, it's true because not only are you embracing it, you're kind of seeking it out, you know,
Speaker 2:And again, I'm liking the jewelry making. It's very freeing, you know, why not do something who knows how it's going to turn out. And I work in acrylics. So if I don't like it, I just paint over it.
Speaker 1:Right. You always have that advantage. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly. In fact, that's how one, my that's how my first face came about. Uh, it's a quirky little painting and it's called how her garden grows. And you look at it closely at the bottom. You can see the curved edge, that's orange. Well, that was a pot of flowers that I could not make for her To black paint and get out all the parts. I didn't like leaving two flowers up here at the top. And I thought, well, they're too close together. They look more like eyes there. We had the beginning of her face.
Speaker 1:Oh, that is wonderful. That is is great. Um, so you took something and you actually, it's still in there, but only pieces of it. Right. Okay. Folks, I'm here with Dana still. And we had to take a quick break because speaking of imperfection, suddenly a lawn company came past the window and I told Dana, I'm dealing with my own sense of imperfection in this recording. And, and we have to go through it, embrace that. So you were talking, I love that conversation. You were talking about how you kind of draw random lines and you discover, discover things in it.
Speaker 2:Yes. Yeah. Stand back. Sometimes I can see things right away. Sometimes it's a matter of just, uh, getting in there with the paint and covering up parts that I don't like or, or going around, painting out around the parts that I do. Like and whatever, just out of that,
Speaker 1:I, I definitely emphasize that as a teacher, when I paint, um, I call it focusing on what is working. And so when you paint and what I do is I have people randomly throw things down on a canvas and find the area that looks interesting. You know, there's always an area that looks interesting and you expand it and make it bigger. So I rather than taking out something, subtracting the negative, I just, I love this cause it's kind of a spiritual practice. It's you expand what is working? So expand the good on that canvas. I love that. So, so do you feel that you still have, do you still get nervous when you approach a canvas? Do you still feel that that imperfection or do you think you've achieved it by embracing it?
Speaker 2:Um, Oh, every once in awhile, you know, not quite sure how to start and sometimes it stops me and I try not to focus on that. Try to just tell myself, just, just paint, just get in there and paint, just get in there. And, um, there was a time where I couldn't quite figure out what I wanted to do and I put a bunch of colors down. I liked him, but I didn't like the way they were running together. I like using alcohol inks because they're there, their properties are kind of like watercolors, but the colors are vibrant. They're just gorgeous and stunning. And sometimes I've got too much on there and they're running together. So I took my fingers and just spread them out and started a whole new thing that way. So just getting in there and play, you know, get creative. Um, you know, like with acrylics, you can always paint over it if you don't like it. But I like your idea better of expanding on what works. Yeah. Uh, there's a little trepidation every once in a while, but for the most part, it's just, just do it, just get in there and paint is get in there and play, just get started. Even if it's a canvas site, move aside for months and don't come back to for a while because can't quite see something in it. Something will, will emerge.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's interesting. Um, my painting mentor always said you should be working on at least three paintings at one time. Um, because of just that you paint it's, it's following that inspiration, you know, um, when you look at the painting, what inspires you to move forward? And if you see a face in it and, and it it's letting that painting, tell its own story with you, you know? And so you do sometimes I'll just sit a painting to the side for months, for months. Um, one time, I I'll tell you an interesting story. One time I had one of those paintings and I just didn't like where it was going. And I leaned it against the wall in my studio and I was out of town and a friend came to the house and they wanted to buy a painting. And so my husband took them into the studio and he calls me up and goes, Oh, they love it. They want that painting. And I'm like, which one? He goes, Oh, the one that was facing the wall, the picture was facing the wall. And she goes, he goes, but they love it. They want to buy it. I'm like, that's not done. And C was to them. And I think that, that leads me to, there is there really is no such thing as perfection is there?
Speaker 2:No, we're, we're not, we're not perfect. I'm never going to be perfect while I'm walking on assert the bets. Okay. I like the fact that I'm in perfect. You know, there's a, what comes through in the imperfection. I don't have to be perfect. That's the best part. I don't know.
Speaker 1:Right. And what's even more interesting is what is perfection? What you would think is perfection to me is different to what you think is perfection. And so we're trying to hit a Mark that really doesn't exist. You know, there is no one final word on anything. Um, and which explains why someone would come into my studio and see a painting that I was like, Oh my God, this is just, you know, but it's sold, it's sold. And, and, uh, so I think I enjoy what you're telling the listeners here is how you also, not only do you walk through that, do you keep painting? Even when Ty, when you're frozen, you just keep, keep moving. Right?
Speaker 2:I do, uh, try to do multiple paintings at once. Well, for one thing, you've got to let the paint dry sometimes. And so I don't want to stop and do something. I don't really want to do like laundry or, or mundane, things like that. That kind of gets you out of your creative mode or focus or whatever. So don't stop while the paint drying and do the mundane everyday stuff, move onto the next painting or the next open campus or something like that. Or pull out one that I've set aside for months and see if I see anything in it, maybe that day and that way you're staying in your creative frame of mind and just kind of letting things flow and see where they go might not finish anything, but that's okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that is okay. There is no, uh, getting anywhere it's about being present with what you're working on at the time. And, um, you know, so we were talking about moving through the fear of, of, of imperfection, but there's also what I have found. And we've talked about this before we got onto the call, um, is that sometimes when I do my art too balanced, like the lines are too straight and too perfect. They, um, they get boring, it gets boring and I have gone back and I'll actually deckle an edge or I'll drag the brush over the edge to, to break it down a little bit. Or if it's a perfect circle, I change it. I mean, I don't know. I don't even, I don't think I've ever used a perfect circle, you know? And so it's, it's, I've gone back and actually realized I'll have a real tight painting and I go back and I actually destroy it a little bit.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Mess it up a little bit. Uh, put your human element in there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes. I like what, um, even lines, edge line through fat and some areas skinny and others quirky bent, uh, taint a lot of trees or I like trees that thing for trees, I guess, cause leaves and branches can be all over the place, dangling straight up and down. Um, I don't know. It's just fun to me to do the negative space painting and let the branches, wherever they go, you know, like getting back, but they're not straight lines. They're not, they don't look like a tree if you looked at it a tree, but there are tree on, on my campus.
Speaker 1:Well, um, I think that if you've, I talked about this in an earlier episode, Twyla Tharp has a book out called the creative habit and she says that we all have very unique things that we're attracted to. Um, it's our, she describes it as your creative DNA. I love this. Um, as an artist, you might gravitate towards a large canvas or really, really small canvas. You might gravitate towards drawing a whole scene like a whole hillside, or you might want to draw just that pencil laying on your desk. And, and as artists, we all have a unique way of interpreting the world. And, and so it sounds like trees and flowers and faces, that's part of your toolbox, what, what you're attracted to. Yes,
Speaker 2:It is. Um, I love flowers. I don't have as many in my backyard as I'd like to. I love flowers. I love the vibrant colors shapes, just the way they make you happy. I think that's what I want to do when I'm painting. I want to create something that I get joy from looking at, you know, I'm happy looking at that and hopefully someone else's too, um, the, the faces, I love the contours of the face, but my favorite part is the eyes. And I always start with the eyes are the first thing to go in the face and the face is drawn around it. So something about the eyes that draw me in.
Speaker 1:Huh. Interesting. So that's part of your toolbox. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So like people's eyes,
Speaker 1:Windows to the soul. Isn't that what they say? Yes. Well, you know, um, I was thinking also about the idea of perfection and imperfection and, um, I think that what we're tasked to do as creative people is to find what is unique to us. And I do believe that we are all unique spiritual expressions of God and that we are to be creative with that expression in whatever way we are. Um, I learned something about myself early on is I have a slight tremor in my hand, I have a, it's called a non essential tremor. And so when I painted, I would get frustrated because I wanted the line to be so straight and it's really hard for me to do straight. Um, and so I learned a technique of dragging on the canvas to make it look straight, even though, so I was brushed, I'm holding, I hold the brush in a different way and, and I can use it for a different technique. But what's interesting about that is that unique trade in my personality, the fact that I, I have trouble holding a straight hand, makes my paintings have a certain style to them. That is it's, it's intrinsically me, you know, and, and it's not because I'm perfect.
Speaker 2:Yeah, sure. You are.
Speaker 1:It's because I found a way to work around that or to, like you said, to embrace that imperfection. So instead of saying, Oh, I can't paint, I can't paint because I can't draw a straight edge. I thought, well, how can I get the effect I want with the tools that I do have
Speaker 2:Embracing your, your own individuality and, you know, that's a Chris Miller painting.
Speaker 1:Right. And people,
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Literally in me. And, um, and one other aspect that's really interesting is I had a LASIK eye surgery done several years ago and they actually destroyed my left eye. Um, I get a double image. Yeah. And so I don't know if you notice a lot of my paintings have like a three dimensional quality to them where I offset the image twice. And I realized it's because of who I am, it's the way I see the world. You know, we, we, we create on how we see the world. And since I see this double edge, a lot of my pain people come up to me and say, your paintings are three dimensional. And I'm like, they are,
Speaker 2:That's how I see. Perfect though. Cause that's even more of you in it and it makes it more unique and just perfectly you.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And so I love how you've incorporated these, the techniques. So when you were transit too, you started out with jewelry and then you transferred over to painting. Did a lot of the skills transfer over with you or did you kind of have to relearn?
Speaker 2:Uh, no. They transferred over for the most part. You know, I got into painting, um, mainly because I got stuck in jewelry, I just couldn't create, this is before I created my Wabi collection, the embracing the art of imperfection, but I just got stuck in creating and couldn't come up with anything new. So I just kind of stepped away and thought, I'd try something different creatively, but I wanted something with color and lines and shapes that's. So I took a painting class and really fell in love with it. I mean, I haven't been able to stop that was 10 years ago and they actually work hand in hand. There's a lot of shapes that are in the jewelry that are in my paintings and a lot of shapes in the paintings that are in the jewelry.
Speaker 1:Well, I love the idea that you actually created a line of your jewelry to honor this imperfection. And what does explain the term, what lobby
Speaker 2:Yes. Wabi, it's taken from Wabi Sabi, which is the art of imperfection. And I just love that term. I read it one time long time ago and I thought that's exactly what I'm doing, you know, so I made it the Wabi collection taking it from that. It just talks about, um, creating or not creating, but embracing, um, imperfection and the imperfect things around us instead of the cookie cutter, uh, manufactured, perfect things, uh, looking at the aging things around us, you know, the imperfection and things that are natural. And
Speaker 1:So where did that term come from?
Speaker 2:It's a Japanese term.
Speaker 1:So is it it's it's from the Japanese culture? Wabi Sabi. Yes. How interesting. So the listeners listeners, you should look that term up. I'm going to myself and read about it, right?
Speaker 2:Yes. There's a lot of information out there, but, uh, it's been around for a long time. It's it's uh, and when I saw that, I thought that's exactly what I'm doing and this, uh, jewelry that I'm making is embracing the imperfect value of it. So I made it the Wabi clipped.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that. I love that. Well, I will look that up. I always love learning new things. So Wabi Sabi is that one word, one word, two words, two words with a dash in between. Okay.
Speaker 2:I slash S ABI walking. Perfect. And the jewelry kind of plays to the meticulous detail side of me where the disc cutting loose and seeing what happens. I do that with jewelry also, but there's so many tiny details that you have to do. I mean, you've got a line, um, you've got to line the edges up pretty much perfectly to get the right solder joint, but you don't have to line up the edges perfectly in the painting. So I go back and forth between the two and they kind of play into each other. And it's interesting. I've been more creative in jewelry making since starting painting. And I've been more creative in painting when I also incorporate the jewelry. If that makes sense.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You borrow techniques from each. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2:It was something to make in jewelry while I'm painful. I need to do that or, you know, the other way around. So it's a fun, fun thing because instead of spending all my time, working on the meticulous fine details, even in their organic state, in the jewelry, I can jump into the painting and just free it all up. It's perfect.
Speaker 1:So when I was talking about doing three paintings at a time, do you have your jewelry on one end of your workshop and painting on the other?
Speaker 2:Yes. My workshops on bed.
Speaker 1:So you jumped from literally jumped from painting to jewelry to back and forth.
Speaker 2:Yes. Yes. I try to concentrate at least on one for a little bit, not go crazy. Yeah. The jewelry and all the tools are in one part in the table with all the paces and another, it's just a mix, but it's, I guess you could say it's a perfectly imperfect mix of me.
Speaker 1:Well, it's how you communicate. What, where do you see yourself going? Do you think you'll stick with those two, um, media, or do you think you're going to move into another one?
Speaker 2:I think I'll stick with those two. I just love them so much to be able to do both of them all the time. Not all the time, but most days it's, uh, it's wonderful. I mean, I can't believe I'm doing this. It's it's really amazing.
Speaker 1:Okay. One of the things I think is really interesting about this whole idea is that when you choose to embrace your imperfection, you're actually choosing to be vulnerable and, and open to whatever happens. So how does that equate with you? I mean, are you willing to be vulnerable like that?
Speaker 2:Yes, I think I am because I, like, I like discovering new things about me. You know, the fact that I don't have to be perfect. Um, take some of the pressure off and it is hard sometimes to be vulnerable because you think, well, what if nobody likes this or likes me here, likes what I'm doing. It's okay. Because if you like it, if you like what you're doing and being vulnerable, vulnerable allows you to, uh, I think discover new things about yourself, which sometimes can be really cool and really amazing. You know, maybe you find something you didn't even know was there existed and it's, it can be really beautiful. So people verbal, you know, it's okay. We're human open up to that and it can take you to some really cool places.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that. I love that. And you know, I've often talked to people, they ask for some marketing advice on their work, and I say, you have to know why you do it. Why are you doing this work? Is it to, to sell or is it to be approved or is it simply just for the joy of expressing and you know, there is no right or wrong. Um, and if it's that joy of expressing, like you said, do it, you know, and who cares if people approve,
Speaker 2:Right. Just be authentically you. I know we hear that word a lot, but it's, I mean, you were created amazingly beautiful the way you are and there's nobody like you. So just be your authentic, vulnerable self. I mean, that's, you can't be any better than that.
Speaker 1:That's true. B B in perfectly you.
Speaker 2:Yes. I love it. You know, it's got to be in perfect.
Speaker 1:Oh, I enjoyed chatting with you on this and um, about how to walk through and embrace that imperfection rather than fight it and let it frees you up. So if you were to tell the listeners the one big thing to do, when they feel that, you know, especially someone new approaching the creative process, what would you tell them? They walk up in there. They're like, I've had people say, I can't do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have to. And you can, we're all, we're all made creative. We're all created by our creator to be creative. And just start, just do, I mean, don't, you don't have to go in with expectations. Just play. If you like color pencils, play with that. Uh, you can play with paints, you can shape things, uh, out of wire and just, just jump in and try it. You'd be surprised how freeing it can be. Just see where it goes, you know, a little time each day, or maybe take an afternoon and, and just play says, play.
Speaker 1:I love it. That's what creativity is about. Just playful expression. Yeah. You know?
Speaker 2:Yes. You'd be surprised you might surprise yourself myself. So,
Speaker 1:All right. Well, I appreciate the conversation. I love the reminder too, to let myself be imperfect and actually actually play up the imperfection for that matter. Um, it is what makes people attractive. And I think it's what makes us unique, creative, spiritual beings. You know, the fact that we, yeah. That we are, that we aren't perfect. This is what's so perfect about it all so, well, I will catch up with you soon. I appreciate the call and thanks for joining me.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, Chris. It's been a blast,
Speaker 1:Right? Thanks. Thanks again for listening to the spiritual artist podcast, whether you're watching the show on Apple podcasts, Spotify, Google play, or iHeartRadio, make sure you choose the subscribe button so that you will receive updates when new segments are released, most importantly, be still listen and know that you are a spiritual artist.