Host Christopher Miller interviews landscape architect/teacher Michael Parkey, ASLA on the art of listening during the creative process. Michael introduces listening for the Genius Loci or “Guardian Spirit of a Place.” As artists, we’re asked to be still, be present and avoid the temptation to force a solution. Conversation details Michael’s learned process including years of practice, focused concentration and “dreaming with his eyes open” that helps him identify the emotional feeling of a project. He cautions to avoid formulaic work while letting the creative process unfold. Discussion also includes reference to Mark Nepo’s “Seven Thousand Ways to Listen,” and the learnable ability to visualize a project before it’s begun. Michael has taught courses on landscape design and native plans for Southern Methodist University, and frequently lectures on the same topics. His articles, designs, and illustrations have appeared in several books and periodicals, and he has frequently contributed to The Dallas Morning News. His designs have received awards from the City of Dallas and the American Society of Landscape Architects. For more information, visit http://www.michaelparkey.com/
Host Christopher Miller interviews landscape architect/teacher Michael Parkey, ASLA on the art of listening during the creative process. Michael introduces listening for the Genius Loci or “Guardian Spirit of a Place.” As artists, we’re asked to be still, be present and avoid the temptation to force a solution. Conversation details Michael’s learned process including years of practice, focused concentration and “dreaming with his eyes open” that helps him identify the emotional feeling of a project. He cautions to avoid formulaic work while letting the creative process unfold. Discussion also includes reference to Mark Nepo’s “Seven Thousand Ways to Listen,” and the learnable ability to visualize a project before it’s begun. Michael has taught courses on landscape design and native plans for Southern Methodist University, and frequently lectures on the same topics. His articles, designs, and illustrations have appeared in several books and periodicals, and he has frequently contributed to The Dallas Morning News. His designs have received awards from the City of Dallas and the American Society of Landscape Architects. For more information, visit http://www.michaelparkey.com/
Welcome to the spiritual artists podcast. This is Chris Miller, and I invite you to join me. As I interview artists from a variety of disciplines, we'll share powerful stories and lessons learned while making their art welcome to the spiritual artist podcast. This is Chris Miller and I'm here with good friend, Michael Parky. He is a landscape architect and designer, and also I have known him for many, many years. Um, we have often gotten into some interesting conversations about everything spiritual, but listening in specific. And I wanted to talk to Michael today about how he works with his clients, listening to a project and its needs, and then coming up with the creative ideas to make it happen. So a good morning, Michael. Hi, Chris, how are you? I'm doing great. It's been a crazy busy day. Same for you. I am good. You know, I was thinking about this before I came up and you and I have been, this is a continuation of a conversation that you and I have had for 25 years. Do you realize that? No, I actually did not realize it was that long. Well, we do have conversations, but let me tell the listeners, um, I met you in a class that you were teaching it, uh, SMU, correct? It was all right. Organic gardening. It was on a native plants in, in landscaping, native plants and landscaping. And I remember that it was really interesting and passionate and very detailed. Michael has a slide projector that never ends. And, uh, you very much knows his, his plantings and what is native and what is water-wise? Is that the correct term? Yes. Or now people use the term sustainable, sustainable. So the buzz word. So I think what I wanted to include here for my listeners is when I talk about a spiritual artist, I talk about anybody that is really consciously present with the act of being creative. And after obviously, if I've known you for 25 years and we've had many conversations about the thought that goes behind a planting or landscape design, it means that I do think you're very conscious as an art as an artist. I try to be. So the other day we were talking about listening and let me give you a little background on my end, as you know, I'm a painter as well. And, um, I have learned that as I paint, I often try to, to be in a state of open-mindedness and of receiving guidance. And I feel like sometimes I just get this intuitive impulse, you know, I will be painting. And suddenly there's just this intuitive impulse to grab a tube of ochre paint and start using that in the painting. And it kind of goes with the flow of listening to some sort of, uh, internal guidance. And so we were discussing this a few weeks
Speaker 2:Back, and I know that you get called in to do projects, all sorts of public areas too. Is that correct? Uh, yes. Uh, right now most of my work is residential. Uh, but I've done, um, you know, public poet, landscapes, parks, zoos, nature, study areas, um, all kinds of stuff. Well, tell me how that, how that goes. So how do you work through the process when you go out there and, and you need a client? Well, um, since most of my, you know, my work is residential, which I really enjoy. Um, you know, the first thing that I'm listening to is of course my client and, uh, you know, people have, you know, functional requirements, you know, things they want to accomplish. Um, they, they have their own tastes, you know, what they, what they like, what they don't like. Um, and a lot of times what I do with them is, um, uh, I try to get them to put together scrapbooks of photographs because that's the easiest way for me to communicate with them and learn their taste because, you know, I have design jargon and I can say, well, you know, uh, you know, this follows the golden ratio, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And, you know, most people have no idea what I'm talking about. So, but if they show me a picture of something that they like or something that they don't like, uh, then it's really easy for me to, to understand what, what they want, how they want it to look. Um, and so that's, that's the first part of the listening. Okay. Um, and then the, the second part of the listening, and some people would just call this observation, but I like listening better, uh, because I have to listen to the site. I have to, I have to look at the area where this landscape is going to go and design something, first of all, it's possible and practical and, you know, to satisfy myself, uh, environmentally sensitive. Um, but it also has to work aesthetically with the site. And this is something that designers started talking about a lot about, um, maybe 40 years ago. Um, and the term that was commonly used is, uh, getting us Loki, which is Latin for guardian spirit of a place. Oh, how wonderful. Yeah. Yes. And, and, and in, in, in modern usage, it's, it's usually translated as sense of place. So, um, so those are the two, those are the first two parts of, of listening that I do. Um, and so, you know, and at the same time, I'm thinking about all kinds of technical matters, you know, and taking measurements and doing drawings that show all the existing conditions and all that stuff. Um, and then when I'm actually ready to start designing, um, that's when I have to listen to my intuition,
Speaker 3:Uh,
Speaker 2:Typically what has happened is that for some time before I began actually sitting down and trying to draw something, um, my subconscious or my preconscious has been working on all these things. And sometimes soon as I get, you know, sudden ideas, um, uh, you know, when I first talked to the client or a first see the site, uh, sometimes I don't. Um, but before I actually sit down to actually start the design,
Speaker 3:Uh Hmm.
Speaker 2:You know, I have to listen to all of those things and I'm listening to, um, you know, my experience,
Speaker 3:Um, uh,
Speaker 2:All of the gardens I've seen in the past, um, all the things I like, all the things I don't like. Um, and so all of that goes into the mix.
Speaker 1:Wow. That's I mean, so, you know, it's interesting. Cause as I've studied the process of me being an artist, I do think there's two aspects. There is almost an intellectual understanding, like what you're talking about, what will grow here, what is native to this area? What will take this amount of rainfall, but then on another side, when you talk about listening to this place, there's also an emotional feeling. It's an emotional feeling. And I, it's so hard to get for me, it's hard to get my hands around that, you know, it is hard to, it's hard to define that part of it. That's the slippery part.
Speaker 2:Um, and you know, landscape architecture is a, is a problem solving discipline. And, and, and we have lots of technical things that we have to deal with and functional things that we have to deal with. Um, first, I mean, those are the things that, you know, are, are absolutely necessary, but then you're also, you're also hoping and waiting for, uh, that aesthetic spark uh that's that, That little inspiration that will elevate the design to something beyond just a problem solving exercise. Huh. How interesting.
Speaker 1:So how do you feel, is there a way to create the condition for that to happen? Well, it's tough. I mean, part of it, well, part of it is just practice.
Speaker 2:Uh, it's just, you know, doing it over and over again. Um, and you know, so, uh, so part of it is just that habit of mind right. Of allowing that, of, of recognizing that process as it's happening and allowing it to occur. Um, you know, it requires a lot of concentration. Uh, um, I, you know, I, I have to, you know, put the phone on mute, um, uh, close the door. So the dogs don't drive me crazy. Um, you know, a lot of times I listen to music, um, and, and I, I sent you a little essay that described this, but, um, you know, what I'm trying to do is I'm trying to dream with my eyes open. Oh, that's pretty cool. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Dream with your eyes open.
Speaker 2:So yeah.
Speaker 1:Is it about just being, we'll see, this is where, you know, I get into my whew, as you would say, but yes, it's that, that, that stillness where you make the room quiet, there's a stillness and a presence and you hope you hope, you know, cause sometimes I go, for example, yesterday I was painting and, and you know, I felt like I was pushing, I was just pushing against it. I was adding colors and they weren't working and I'm like the colors aren't talking to each other and yet I don't know what color should talk to it. You know, I'm looking at it and go, this isn't working, but I don't know what's working. And so sometimes, and I encourage people to do this. Sometimes you do have to just walk away, you know? Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. You know, if it, if I start trying to design something and it, and I feel that way, um, that I just can't make progress with it. I stop and come back to it later. Um, you know, because you can't force it, you can encourage it, but you can't force it. Yeah,
Speaker 1:No, it's very true. And I find that when I force it, I usually do something that I resent, you know, I come back and go, Oh, why did I do that? Why did I block that area out? Or why did I add that color? Um, and I don't usually find myself in that, in that situation, except for
Speaker 2:When, uh, uh, clients box me into a corner that actually rarely happens. You'll be surprised. Uh, I, that doesn't happen very often, but occasionally a client will force me into a, a particular solution, uh, that I don't like, but it's what they want. Uh, and, and so, so, and as long as it's not, you know, technically bad or dangerous or, or too environmentally responsible, I do it grit my teeth, I do it. And then I move onto the next one, as soon as I can.
Speaker 1:Well, they can't all be masterpieces, right? No, they can't. They can't. So, so what you're saying is maybe they, they, they try to constrain it too quickly.
Speaker 2:Um, well, too, too much. Uh, but most of the, but honestly, and, and I have to be, I had to give my clients a lot of credit for this is that that rarely happens. Most people who come to me, you know, come to a D they come to a designer to a landscape architect because they know they want something that they don't know what it is yet. And so it's, so part of my listening to them is to figure that out is to figure out they can't, they can't express it. They can't put it in words, uh, but they know they want something. And so part of what I do is I figure out what it is that they want.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:Did you do that by watching them or what they say or what would they say? What they show
Speaker 2:Me? Um, um, I always like to go and, you know, it's difficult these days, but I always like to go inside people's houses, uh, when I meet with them, because a lot of what they've done inside their house, um, uh, tells me about what they would, what they would like to have in, in the exterior, in the landscape, but they just don't know how to put it in words yet.
Speaker 1:It's interesting. I used to do in marketing, I would do that. I would actually go into clients' offices and I'd idolize the paintings on their wall and even the suit they were wearing or the dress they were wearing, what colors did they gravitate towards and yeah, yeah, exactly. All of that stuff, you know? So I think that, like you were talking about when you're scoping out the space, um, I do like that because I find it challenging that changing the space can, can bolster creativity. So, um, my, my mentor that is a painter, she would always say, if you get tired of something, you're working on change the size of the canvas, should you say, like, if you're doing, if you're doing horizontal canvases and you're doing them and you're doing them and you're getting bored, go get around canvas or a real tall, vertical canvas, because it's going to force you outside of that, that comfort zone.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And of course, of course, for me, I'm lucky in that my canvas is never the same on it. Yeah, yeah. You know, and, and, uh, and, but for some landscape architects, it is, if you're doing a lot of formulaic commercial work, the canvas often is very similar and I have done some of that work and it is so boring. I just, I won't do it, you know, beyond that now in my career, I just don't do that anymore. But, but as you, but exactly, you know, my canvas has never the same because I have to pay attention to the site and that is my canvas. And, uh, it has all kinds of possibilities and constraints that I have to pay attention to.
Speaker 1:Well, you know, she would say, if you have to work with the same side, this canvas change your color palette, force yourself to work with a color that you you're not comfortable with. Um, I've just kind of gone what I call
Speaker 2:My pink period because pink is a very, it's an interesting color, but it's also a difficult color. It's people have strong emotional reactions to pink. Um, it it's, it's a great mixer. It mixes with other colors, but I, so I did, I've done a whole series of paintings and I think I'm just, I think yesterday I decided I'm done with pink for awhile, but I ha but you know, I had explored it as much as I want to at this point. So, you know, that's funny because I remember you telling me many times in the past, and we've been talking about plants, how much you hate paying. So that's funny. Um, but you know, the, the, you know, that thing about being forced, if a design is not working, uh, force yourself to do something different, um, I think that's, that's one of the differences in the way that I work than, than is typical for artists, because my clients are almost always forcing me to think about it differently. Yeah. Because everybody likes different things and, um, you know, I'm never designing my own garden over and over again. It's always somebody else's garden guided by their needs and their taste. And therefore I have to think outside my own box.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:So when you're constantly expanding, but yes, it's a little challenging too, right? Yes. It's fun. That's what makes it, so it keeps it interesting. Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, I'm going to pick on this, we're going to talk about this when you've talked about, when you sit quietly and you get this intuition and we've had discussions about this and, you know, I believe that that's me connecting with some greater power, some, some divine power. And whether I call it God or mother nature or the one or the universe. Now I know you, you, you come from a different background, let's say so. And yet you still are receiving intuition. You're still, yes. So I regard that as, as the, the murky and incredibly complex functions of the brain, right. And there's, there's an, there's an incredible amount of stuff going on in our brains that we have no idea about even, you know, we're, we're not conscious of it, uh, any, but even as in science, we don't under, we understand it very poorly. Um, and so, but a lot of those processes are proceeding automatically. And B, because I've been doing this for a long time, I can now trust them.
Speaker 3:Hmm.
Speaker 2:I, I can, I can, I can, you know, I can let them happen and let them suggest things to me and I, but I can still edit them or reject them or say, now that's terrible idea. Um, but, but I do trust them a lot.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So you think it's, I'm so sort of so conscious. Exactly.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I mean, there, there are a lot of different terms for subconscious preconscious, unconscious, um, but it's, but it's not something that I'm, um, that I'm directly thinking about. Um, you know, Michael Parkey is not having an inner dialogue about this all the time. Some of the ideas come from someplace else, some other part of my mind.
Speaker 1:So when you say someplace else, you mean like a different level of your mind? Yes, yes. Yeah. Some other, some process that I'm not aware of, we're not fully aware of. Uh, I think that, that, that's a, I mean, obviously that's why I've started this podcast. That's all about that, that place, you know, that place where I know, and I've encountered it when I, when I do creative, uh, brainstorming for a client, I've done it when I paint it's that, that moment where I'm in flow and suddenly, boom, these little ideas just jumps in my head and that's sort of what this is about as a Chronicle of how can you, you know, you were saying, you can guide it, but you can't force it.
Speaker 2:Right. Right. And, and what I do typically is, you know, when I'm sitting down to do this and, and, and like most architects and landscape architects, uh, you know, I do my design with hand drawings. Um, and, um, so I sit down and I started drawing things and hopefully those are, those are coming from that, uh, that intuitive creativity. Uh, but I'll draw a couple of lines and I'll look at it and maybe it's good. Maybe it's not, uh, if I think it has any promise, all I may, I may work on it, then I may elaborate then, or I may put it off to the side and draw another one, You know? And if I'm really lucky, I'll get two or three good ideas and, and, and a number of bad ones, which just go into the trash. Um, and, and, you know, and then, so I'll pick one of those to elaborate in and take into, you know, into the design.
Speaker 1:I have to ask you this question because my, one of my employees always brings this up with me. Do you show all three ideas to your client or just your favorite?
Speaker 4:Mmm.
Speaker 2:You know, early in my career when I was first learning about this and when I was working for other people, not just for myself, um, we often, uh, it was like a requirement to show different concepts to the client. Um, I don't, I rarely do that anymore. I usually just go with my best idea. Um, sometimes if, if you have two different ideas or two different solutions to the design are, seem equally attractive to me, then I will show both of them to the client. But usually it's just one I really, yeah. And if I'm, and, and what's fortunate what it tells me that I'm doing my job correctly is most of the time when presented with that one option, people like it,
Speaker 1:I'm sure every once in a while you get someone that's difficult. Sure. You know, it's just, I want to see another way. Sure. And that's fine. You know, that, that, that's always fine. Of course.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Also, um, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm depicting three dimensional spaces with a really weird two dimensional symbolic language. And so a lot of the time I'm presenting this to people, this drawing and, and they have a very hard time understanding what it means that is really common. Most people, most people cannot visualize in three dimensions from a two dimensional drawing is a matter of training or talent, you know, or experience. Um, and so that's when I that's when I talk them through it, uh, and, and describe it in words and, and point to things on the drawing and say, okay, now this will be a such and such. And, and it's, it's going to be kind of transparent. So you can see through it some, but not completely do those kinds of descriptions with them that helps them to understand it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think that is the case. And I found that myself, that a lot of people, I think that's what they hire you for exactly. That you have that vision. And basically you're, you're kind of seeing something before it's, um, created. Yes, we are. We are pre visualizing, pre visualizing and I'm rare talent, you know? Well, I, I, I,
Speaker 2:I don't, I think, I think a lot more people could have it if they were trained to do it, uh, um, uh, you know, some people, it seems to happen naturally. Um, other people have to have a lot of training. Um, but I think more people could do it if, if they got the right kind of training, there was a real famous experiment that was done a long time ago. Um, uh, architecture students were asked to draw a simple floor plan of a building, you know, pals, whatever. Um, and then they picked up all the, all the little floor plans and they built models of them three dimensional models. And then they asked the, these are beginning students. Uh, they asked the students to pick out which model had been built from their drawing. And they were right only about half the time. Oh, interesting. Yeah. That's how difficult it is. Even for people who, who want to do it really want to do it.
Speaker 1:So what do you think, why do you think you had that skill, or do you think you, do you think you always had that skill or do you think you learned it?
Speaker 2:Uh, both. Um, I think, I, I think, I, I think I always had it, I think it, I think it was, you know, um, uh, in an innate part of my personality, but it was greatly honed by training.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:It's interesting. I mean, you're right, because I've talked to people though, and there's a little bit of both, and I don't know if it was my childhood or what, but I do. I've always had the ability to see things, but it has gotten sharper and sharper. Yes. You know, as I've gotten older and I, and, and that, that is a part of listening to it, you know? Um, so I, I wanted to share this with my listeners because, uh, not only did I meet you in that class, but, um, might tell you a funny story about that. Go ahead and tell us the funny story. It's a great story. Not really. It really is.
Speaker 2:Um, you know, when I was teaching that class, I had been teaching it for some time and, uh, you know, I can immediately pick out the, the live wires in the class, you know, I knew who was going to be really engaged and who was really interested in this stuff. And I, and I knew from the first class that you were one of those people, um, and after we'd had like two or three classes, um, you came up to me to ask questions after the class, you said, he said, I have this plant. Um, I don't know what it is. Uh, but I've done a drawing of it. If I show it to you, can you tell me what it is? And I thought, Oh, well, you opened your notebook. And there was this beautiful botanical illustration of this plant, which I could immediately identify as like Horace radiata spatter. I definitely remember that. Yeah, it was, it was as clear as, you know, as clear as a bell. And, and that's when I thought, you know, I need to get to know this guy better.
Speaker 1:You know, that's funny you talk about seeing something. And, and I remember when I, as learning to be an artist you're taught to where they kind of reteach you to see things. Um, a lot of people, like you say, what does the sun look like? And they draw a little icon, a son, but that's not what the sun looks like at all. And so it's the people that look at the sun and see how it really have a soft res come out and through the clouds and the softness of it. It's about learning to really see something for what it is, which, which I don't know the name of his book, but I just read a book by Mark Nepo and it's about listening and uses listening
Speaker 2:A lot. And he equates, uh, listening with seeing, you know, he, he kind of interchanges the words that it's really, when you listen, you're seeing things, you're, you're listening for things that people don't see. And it's, it was really interesting book. Well, that, and, and that, that's very similar to the process. I feel like I'm doing when I'm listening to a site, because, because the, when I'm listening to it, as I'm looking at it, yeah. I'm observing it and I'm moving through it. That's a very important part. Um, but, but I don't, I don't think of it as observing. I don't think of it as looking at the site. I, I, I, I'm trying to think of it as, as my role being more receptive than that I'm receiving impressions from the site.
Speaker 3:Nope.
Speaker 2:I liked that a lot. And to me, it's yeah. That's, I take them better than listening, you know, it is. It's about, it's about it's for me, it's almost about feeling it. There is a part of me, that's actually feeling the silence. Yeah. The term you used earlier about, uh, the site has a, what was it that[inaudible] Loki? Wow. That's a great word in English. Mo many people pronounce it. Genius, low side. That's how it's spelled. Uh, okay. Um, but yeah, yeah. Um, the, one of the things that I wanted to mention and, or go back to a little bit, and this is one of the things I think is so interesting about landscape architecture. Well, now I've thought of two things, but, uh, the first one was, is that it's a three dimensional art form and, and unlike sculpture in many ways, it's a three dimensional art form, which is inhabited and moved through by the observer, by the audience. And that's one of the things this is so fascinating about it. And so slippery because it's not just a static picture, uh, you know, of a house with a flower bed in front of it. It's it's how does that scene as you walk toward the house, right? How does that make you feel as you move through it? Hmm. And that, and, and thinking about that, thinking about the process of a person moving through a landscape is, is a surefire method for making it interesting. Because if, if you, if you imagine how it, how it reveals itself to you, as you move through it, it will always be interesting. Oh, great. Yeah.
Speaker 1:And what was the second thing you said there was a second idea there about, Oh, Oh, the second thing was that, that, that, um,
Speaker 2:You know, landscape architects tend to come in two varieties. There are landscape architects who hate plants. And then there are landscape architects who love plants and I've of course, one of the ones who loves plants. And so I'm fascinated by the fact that, you know, I'm designing with things that change constantly. These are living things and, and they change and they grow and they look different at different times of the year. Uh, and if you're not nice to them, they will die.
Speaker 1:Exactly, exactly. So, so that's another aspect of it that I find, especially interesting. Oh, well, you know, what I was going to bring up a little earlier was, um, uh, uh, to share with the listeners is that one of the things that you started teaching me many years back and I've gotten waylaid with other work was the art of bonsai. And, and, and it's that you actually do a lot of bonsai, is that correct? Yes. Yes. Still do been doing it for a long time. And I remember, um, early on I would come and I have, I have my bald Cypress in the backyard and it's something I would probably like to get back to. But when we were talking about looking, you know, Michael will stand there and he'll turn that plant just a little bit and look at it, then he'll turn it a little more, look at it and turn it. It's a very, very thoughtful process of examination. Like you said, how does it look from every angle? Yes. Tip it a little bit this way, keep it back a little bit, keep it forward a little bit. Exactly. And, and, and so one of the things you said that I really love is that you're, you're not just looking for where things are. You're looking for the space where things, aren't the negative space, the negative space,
Speaker 2:The emptiness, the emptiness is as important as the objects.
Speaker 1:And that that's a great lesson for any artist. Um, it, when you're doing a painting or a sculpture or landscape design, or a bonsai, you need to focus on, what's not there as much as you're focusing on what is there. Yeah. And it's, you know, and in a landscape, if, if you just fill it up with everything, nobody can ever walk through it. It has to have empty space in it. Right. You know, otherwise it's useless. And even just where you have like pieces of sky popping through, or, you know, even the S the direction of the sun and how it hits that plot of land, where does it come up and where does it set? Um, so I, I do find that has, I think I told you a, a couple of weeks ago, my now 16 year old son who doesn't really pay much attention to anything I do in the yard noticed the, the ball Cypress bonds that you did for me. And he's been watching Japanese anime and he's like, Hey, that's Japanese, isn't it? I was like, yes, son,
Speaker 2:But isn't that a wonderful example about how, um, an experience that he's had watching the anime has suddenly made him see this familiar object that's been around since, before I was born. Right. Um, in a wholly, in a completely new way.
Speaker 1:Exactly. So, so you're right. So we're always changing as we, as we age and mature and grow the way we view everything constantly changes. Yes. And, and it was exciting. I was like, Oh, he noticed something I've done. That's great. It's a great story. So I, I really, this has been a great conversation. Um, well, thanks. I mean, I've, you know, I've always loved talking to you about this kind of stuff. Yeah. Go ahead. I've, I've realized that I've drawn people into my life. Um, oftentimes in fact, I've noticed with these podcasts on every single one of these people, their teachers, they're teachers, as well as passionate about what they do and, and you as well. And I think when you really, really love something, you, you, you want to share it with other people.
Speaker 2:Yes. And, and, and, and I can't help myself. I mean, you know, I, I, I, you know, you always run the risk of boring people with it because you find it so fascinating. And, um, and you want to talk about it in such detail. Uh, and, and, and let's face it. Many people just don't want it.
Speaker 1:It's rare. It's rare,
Speaker 2:Very rewarding. When you find somebody who does want to hear it,
Speaker 1:It is rewarding. What's interesting, too, is as I've talked to more and more people in so many different disciplines, there's crossover, almost every one of my interviews has said, practice, practice. You have to keep practicing what you do. Absolutely. It's something. I think when we, when I go back to my conversation earlier about the intelligence, the understanding of how to do something and the emotion, I think you can make art with just emotion, but when you combine them, when you combine thoughtfulness, like you are with what plants grow here, what, what plants grow in the soil with that emotional feeling that's magic, you know, you don't, I, I, I agree
Speaker 2:With you. Um, and it's, it's kind of interesting because, um, you know, it is possible, um, you know, I mean, to a larger extent, um, in the fine arts, what's called them that, um, to, to just go with the emotion, right. You know, um, feeling it and then doing it now, obviously there's always, there's always, there's always the physical aspect of, of, of creating art. You know, you know, you have to put the paint on canvas, you have to carve that block of stone there. You have to do those things. Um, but in, in landscape architecture, um, I rarely have that much freedom. I'm almost always, uh, you know, constrained by a lot of different things, but it doesn't bother me. I, in fact I enjoy it.
Speaker 4:Hmm. Okay.
Speaker 2:Interesting insight, you know? Yeah. Maybe you like that constraint. Well, I do, obviously, you know, it, it, it,
Speaker 1:Yeah. And again, it's one of the things that makes every design different.
Speaker 4:Alright. Okay.
Speaker 1:Well, I thank you for being on the show and, um, well, you're very welcome. I've been a lot of fun. It'll be a lot of fun, and I will put your bio for people to check out more information in the, in the description of this podcast and be sure you get all those honorifics and letters behind my name. I'm real picky about that stuff. I will make sure. All right. I'll talk to you later. Great. Thank you, Chris. Okay, bye.
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